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The 13 Martyrs of Arad Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:27:19 [Preview] No. 10930
Its 6th October the commemoration day of the 13 Martyrs of Arad. It's not a national holiday but schools for example usually do some form remembrance.
On this day in 1849 twelve general and one colonel of the Hungarian Defense Force was executed as part of the retaliation of the Habsburg Court after the 1848-49 war of independence. On the same day suffered martyrdom at Pest the prime minister of the first responsible government, Count Batthyány Lajos too.

To go on in larger extent what went down during the revolution and the following war would be long and wouldn't really fit for the subject so I'll write little this and little that.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:30:44 [Preview] No. 10931 del
The idea of civic changes had been toyed with for few decades before the happenings, and not just the French Revolution spread the ideas but in absolutist circles (like Joseph II and his Josephinists) considered it time to times that certain changes are inevitable.
In Hungary the wishes to finally dissolve the feudalistic limits surfaced during the Reform Era (1825-48). The people had different ideas how to implement this:
1. in a very cautious fashion with the lead of the Habsburg Court, small steps without great trauma
2. constitutional monarchy with the Habsburgs at the helm, but apply the changes without their lead, they role was the passive consenter
3. constitutional monarchy without the Habsburgs, fuck them
4. republic
In the beginning they tried the first rout however the Court, lead by Metternich instead the mildly retard king Ferdinand V (Ferdinand I as Austrian Emperor), wasn't too enthusiastic about the changes. That Metternich fellow was a real hardass despising everything that wasn't 100% absolutistic.
The situation ripened enough by the spring of 1848 to try the second rout. It wasn't thought through like this but circumstances and decisions led onto this path. Following the revolution of Wien on 13th March a mass demonstration in Pest-Buda (there were no unified Budapest back then) on 15th forced the ruler to accept the demands of the people. A new, independent and responsible government formed and took over the control of the country. The responsible meant that they were responsible to the Hungarian National Assembly and not to the king. The last parliament of the estates, the Diet of Hungary accepted a pack of laws called the April Laws which were signed by Ferdinand V on 11th April and were considered as some kind of a baseline for later debates and maybe a kind of a constitution. I won't go into details I'll continue with which has a relevance to the topic at hand.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:34:48 [Preview] No. 10932 del
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During the earlier decades the Königlich part of the K.u.K. army in theory was under the control of the Hungarian parliament but the regulations weren't clear and the rulers obviously did with their armies what they wanted. The Habsburgs was a bit paranoid about their subordinate folks so no troops stationed at the same part of the domains where they originated from (maybe the sole exception of the South Slavic border guards). Hungarian soldiers did their service on foreign lands and in Hungary foreign soldiers were stationed.
With the new order came new, clear regulations (all signed by His Majesty) this allowed the Hungarian government to call back Hungarian troops which were at that time fighting on Italian fields. But also it allowed control over the units that were currently within the borders of Hungary. There were two problems however. One: the recalling of troops had to went through the unified command who did everything it could to hamper the fulfilling of the orders. Two: the foreign commanders most of the time preferred imperial control so did gave two shits about the orders of the Hungarian government.
In the meantime a National Guard was organized but with the lack of discipline, training and equipment it was destined to be unsuccessful. Storm clouds were on their way, the Court thought this whole Hungarian situation a temporary nuisance and they were ready to take back the concessions they gave. They used the good old divide et impera tactics and used parts of their subordinate folks to bludgeon those subordinate folks who didn't behave themselves. Or at least tried.
Open war erupted in September when the Court sent it's lapdog Josip Jelacic Croat Ban with his troops to put an end to the Hungarian freedom. I won't go into the events of the war either.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:40:01 [Preview] No. 10933 del
The defensive war and the new emperor Franz Joseph behaving like a cunt led the path onto option three in the April of 1849 when the National Assembly accepted the Declaration of Independence and the dethronization of the House of Habsburg.
At the beginning of the war we started out in a very disadvantageous position having a front on all sides. On the cost of losing Buda however the Home Defense Force managed to stabilize all fronts. During the spring campaign with minor exceptions they liberated the whole country and recaptured the capital. The same day the Hungarian flag flew over Buda again Franz Joseph met with Nicholas I Russian Czar in Warsaw and decided on a joint operation.
The Russian intervention came in the middle of June. Wasn't everything lost in an instant but the Hungarian decision makers overplayed their hands. Won't go into details. In the end our troops had to capitulate. They surrendered to the Russian commander, Theodor von Rüdiger at Világos.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:41:42 [Preview] No. 10934 del
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During the whole war the Hungarian Army fought exactly 70 battles and were many opportunities for the talented to rise in the ranks and not just on the battlefield. A whole new army had to be organized from nothing with all the material requirements in a very limited timeframe. Almost all the officers started at lower ranks but almost all had some experience in the K.u.K. army. This experience destined the 13 martyrs to got court-martialed and death penalty for oathbreaking (they fought against the army they took an oath for) beside the usual high treason. According to the court the aggravating circumstance was their high rank despite the fact they didn't acknowledged their appointment they got in the Hungarian Defense Force.
All of them sentenced to death by hanging, four of them got pardoned which meant bullet and their sentence were carried out first.
The retaliation and terror following the defeat was led by Baron Julius Jacob von Haynau, the Hyena of Brescia, a Field Marshal of the Kaiserlich army who was very experienced in dealing with rebels and could always made a time for some hanging in his very busy calendar.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:43:18 [Preview] No. 10935 del
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And now the martyrs.

Batthyány Lajos - Hungarian Count, the prime minister of the first responsible government. His ancient family went back to the times of the Conquest, so almost a millennia. He resigned from the government in October '48, and traveled as a member of a parliament to Alfred Candidus Ferdinand zu Windisch-Grätz for a parley butthe prince didn't want to meet him (only him, the others he did). Batthyány traveled to Pest where he was arrested. He was executed by bullet as he was sentenced to death by hanging but his wife smuggled a tiny knife into the prison and the Count could make injuries on his own neck.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:45:50 [Preview] No. 10936 del
There was a thread on kc about this mentioning that most of them weren't even Magyars.
>Only 4 of them were ethnic Hungarians, the rest were Germans, Croatians, Serbs, Armenian etc...
Why are German speaking Hungarians against their Austro-German overlords?
>Trying to fuck with Metternich
Wrong choice.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:46:29 [Preview] No. 10937 del
Death by bullet.
The sentences were carried out in the morning in front of a bastion of Arad's fort. Every convict got three soldiers as a firing squad. The shots were performed from two steps. Two targeted the chest one the head. The convicts got blinder cloths and got lowered to one knee.

Dessewffy Arisztid, major general - Hungarian noble. Back in the K.u.K. he was kind of a combat engineer then a hussar, retired as a captain in 1839. Served as a hussar and a cavalry officer in the war, later fought against the Russians as the high commander of cavalry of the Upper Hungarian region, then the high commander of the cavalry of the main forces. At first he planned an escape with some if his troops to the Ottomans but a friend of his, Prince Franz von Liechtenstein asked him to give himself up. He surrendered to the imperials at Karánsebes (yes, there). This was considered as a mitigating circumstance hence his sentence was modified to bullet.

Lázár Vilmos, colonel - He was born into a Hungarian impoverished noble family with Armenian roots. Hussar in the K.u.K, left it as a lieutenant. First he lived on his estates then become a board member of a railroad company. Fought as an infantry officer and a sapper in the war. He was elevated to the rank of colonel by "uncle Bem" (lieutenant general Józef Bem). Capitulated to the imperials with the remains of his corps a few days after Dessewffy. He was the first executed.

Schweidel József, major general - Austrian noble (ennobled one and a half year before), otherwise Hungarian commoner of German origin. Veteran of the Napoleonic Wars, served as a hussar. He led his regiment home from Wien at the beginning of the revolution. Capitulated at Világos, the only one whom the court-martial offered pardon but Haynau was resolute. He was shot with a cross in his hands he wore all the time, than a priest gathered it and gave it to his son (who was also a prisoner in that fort) according to his last wish.

Kiss Ernő, lieutenant general - From a rich Hungarian noble family with some Armenian roots. Millionaire, magnate, the first one who was elevated to the rank of general. Previously when in the Habsburg army as a commander of a regiment other officers frequently asked for loan from him, among them Lieutenant General Haynau. Served as a hussar. Capitulated at Világos. His mitigating circumstance was that he hadn't led forces against Imperial troops. In front of the firing squad he didn't allow them to cover his eyes, he looked into the face of his executioners. They missed. From that two steps. Only one shot hit him in his shoulder. Here the stories are conflicted some say he commanded another shot others say major Tichy (the supervisor of the execution) did that. A sergeant stepped forward and shot him in the ear.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:49:07 [Preview] No. 10938 del
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Death by hanging.
A Czech hangman, Franz Bott and his assistants were trusted to hang the convicts. The scaffold was some way away from the fort. They were hanged one at a time. When one was called he said goodbyes to the others who had to watch his agony. Only after he died was the next named.

Poeltenberg Ernő (Ernst Poelt), major general - Austrian noble, Ritter. In the K.u.K first a cuirassier then hussar captain. Got to Hungary despite his wishes, during the spring of 1848 he asked to move him to the Italian front, but they sent him here. He could only lead and curse in Hungarian. He said "Only my tongue is German, my heart is Hungarian as it beats for freedom!" One of the mediator between the Russian and Hungarian high commands at the end of the war. First one to go. He was very strong built with strong neck muscles, his death was misery.

Török Ignác, major general - Hungarian noble, engineer, fortification specialist. A commander of the Komárom fort for a while. Led field fortifications. Second to go. He was one of the oldest, and may had a heart attack at the beginning of his hanging.

Lahner György (Georg Lahner), major general - Commoner (Bürger) of German origin. Infantryman in the K.u.K. The organizer of the Hungarian weapon manufacturing at Nagyvárad, every artillery piece the made got an epigraph: "Do not harm Hungarians!" (It's an older proverb.) Third to go.

Knézic Károly (Karlo Knezic) major general - Croatian father, Hungarian mother, grenzer (South Slavic border guards) family. His political awakening happened when his unit stationed in Lemberg in the '40s surrounded by the poverty of Galicia. Offered his help to the Hungarian Army after sometimes 15th March. Capitulated at Világos. Fourth to go.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:50:58 [Preview] No. 10939 del
Nagysándor József, major general - Hungarian commoner (a "commonergeneral"), at an other place I read he's from impoverished noble family. Hussar in the K.u.K., retired in 1844. In the beginning a cavalry officer in the National Guard. Capitulated at Világos. Fifth to go. Before his execution he said to Tichy: Hodie mihi, cras tibi!

Leiningen-Westerburg Károly (Karl August Graf zu Leiningen-Westerburg), major general - Count from an impoverished aristocrat family of Hessen, Hungarian magnate by marriage. Captain in the K.u.K. by the 31th regiment named after his family. Lived in Pozsony with his wife, volunteered in the Hungarian Defense Force. Sixth to go. The only one who could wear his general uniform, Bott called him general by accident. He was too tall for the gallows, died miserable death.

Aulich Lajos, major general - He was born into the German commune of Pozsony (a "commonergeneral"). Veteran of the Napoleonic Wars, infantryman in the K.u.K. His unit stationed near Pozsony at the beginning of the revolution then sent to Győr as a lieutenant-colonel. He probably got enough of the old regime and was sympathetic toward the changes the Hungarian government initiated. Has his share in the fights then become the Minister of Defense in the second government. He went with a cigar to the scaffold. Seventh to go.

Damjanich János (Jovan Damjanic), major general - Serbian from grenzer family. His parents wanted him to be a priest but he left home and become a soldier. Infantryman of the K.u.K. A Patriot. His commanding officer was Haynau and gave him a big fuck you when he depreciated Hungarians. When called out by the general he said everyone who was born in Hungary is a Hungarian citizen and that person's responsibility to consider Hungary his homeland and defend it's lawful rights. A very controversial person thanks to Serbian butthurt. The most successful commander, never lost a battle. Eighth to go. He was even taller then Leiningen-Westerburg, one of his leg was broken, his execution was a struggle since the hangman and his assistants tried to yank him by his legs to kill him.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 16:51:54 [Preview] No. 10940 del
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Vécsey Károly, major general - Hungarian Count, his family was ennobled in the 15th century, chamberlain, his father was the commander of the Hungarian Noble Bodyguard, his sister was a nanny of Franz Joseph. First dragoon then a hussar in the K.u.K. At the end of the war he capitulated to Ivan Fyodorovich Paskevich. Last to go. He watched all his comrades death with great interest as if he wanted to learn what to do and what not, before him the others all said goodbyes he didn't have anyone to do that so he stepped to Damjanich's hanging body took his hand and kissed it, these two had lots of arguments during the war and they were kind of a rival.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 17:12:05 [Preview] No. 10942 del
I think partially answered your question already. The new government brought such changes in society and economy which was advantageous to everyone (beside the Court). The feudalism itself and it's ties were targeted. They introduced popular representation, universal equality before law, universal taxation. They made possible the sale and purchase of "noble lands" which was previously impossible due to an old law. This gave the chance for the nobles to raise capital and invest it into enterprises. Foreigners supported these because no other place allowed such things in the Habsburg domain. The revolution in Austria and in Prague failed, only Hungary left. The price they had to pay was to acknowledge only one political nation: the Hungarian.

Cont. Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 17:15:18 [Preview] No. 10943 del
Minorities could practice their language and had the same rights as Hungarian citizens like other Hungarian citizens. They didn't get autonomy but have the same opportunities like any other Hungarian.
One of the tragedy (or rather tragicomedy) of this war was that minorities, Croats, Romanians, Serbs and Northern Hungarians couldn't recognize that these laws are for them two. They rather chose the feudalistic yoke of the Habsburgs so that Hungarians couldn't get such level of freedom what they could get too if they chose to support us.
Butthurt extraordinaire.

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 18:01:03 [Preview] No. 10946 del
Attól még koccintok sörrel.
Te mérges?

Bernd 10/06/2017 (Fri) 18:09:38 [Preview] No. 10947 del
Engem mit érdekel, hogy te koccintasz-e sörrel.

Bernd 10/08/2017 (Sun) 08:10:07 [Preview] No. 10966 del
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Oh I forgot!
The Ministry of Education ordered a game to be created with the theme of the 1848-49 fights. It was developed by Hussar Games with the title: 1848.
It's a freeware turn based strategy game, if you are interested you can download it here, with some more info of it's features:

It says however:
>Limitations in the unregistered version
>Limited game play
Which I do not understand as there was no limitation on this. However I found elsewhere that Battlefront - be whoever they are - gave a facelift to the game with some bugfixing and English translation. Maybe this publisher is responsible for the limitations.
I'll test it out and let you know in the Vidya threda.

Bernd 10/08/2017 (Sun) 14:33:14 [Preview] No. 10983 del
Interesting read, although I'm becoming somewhat sceptic for all revolutionary movements. Thanks for this piece of history anyway.
Looks like Panzer General in XIX century. Is the gameplay like this?:

Bernd 10/08/2017 (Sun) 15:39:04 [Preview] No. 10988 del
Kinda yes. Except here you can flank the enemy, you have generals who can be moved to other units and so on.

Bernd 10/08/2017 (Sun) 16:04:21 [Preview] No. 10990 del
It's liek this:
You have only one map where you play the full campaign. The smaller campaigns are played on the same map except you play on only one front.
You have settlements you must defend, they give you new units: some towns you are able to recruit them. You don't get points and buy new ones, it's a continuous production basically, you can choose what type they will produce (several types of cavalry, infantry and artillery).
The units has an attacking and a defending stat, also manpower and movement points. You can gather several units onto one hex to form a division or a corp. I think every unit need a commander who has their own stats and some of them has unique properties too (like cavalry commander, or gunner or some such) which give some more advantages.
Enemy has sames and you try to beat each other.

Bernd 10/08/2017 (Sun) 18:58:57 [Preview] No. 11016 del
I couldn't find any limitations. Errything works as intended. Except the original had encyclopedia with all kind of stuff about the war and it's people.
I haven't played long enough to tell if it has a turn limit.

Bernd 10/08/2017 (Sun) 19:00:50 [Preview] No. 11017 del
>sceptic for all revolutionary movements
Pls elaborate.

Bernd 10/08/2017 (Sun) 20:13:59 [Preview] No. 11026 del
Now it sounds sort of like Battle of Wesnoth. Maybe I'll give it a try one day.

Bernd 10/08/2017 (Sun) 20:32:49 [Preview] No. 11028 del
I'll elaborate later maybe, I should go to sleeb soon

Bernd 10/12/2017 (Thu) 15:37:27 [Preview] No. 11126 del
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Come up with this joge today:
- Magnates how do they work?
- They don't. They have serfs for that.

Bernd 10/12/2017 (Thu) 16:36:06 [Preview] No. 11132 del

Bernd 10/12/2017 (Thu) 21:43:36 [Preview] No. 11141 del

Bernd 10/13/2017 (Fri) 01:59:17 [Preview] No. 11149 del
You've made me remember that our words for magnet and imam have the exact same letters, so there's also joke potential there.

Bernd 10/13/2017 (Fri) 12:45:53 [Preview] No. 11152 del
By a pure coincidence I almost posted this song near that day, two weeks ago. It would be a more impressive coincidence if I actually had, but whatever. I've had it saved since April and came across it on my own files while looking for prog rock so it's not an AI recommendation thing.

Bernd 10/13/2017 (Fri) 15:30:38 [Preview] No. 11154 del
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Bunch of engaging fellow.

Nod really. Rare a day in a year without something we did against the Habsburgs. Or for them...
For example in every hundred years we dethroned them at least once. Maybe this century will be different.

Bernd 03/04/2018 (Sun) 11:58:21 [Preview] No.13978 del
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I need some help from our Russian Bernd(s). If you have the time could you look up some Russian dude?
His name is Alekszej Vasziljevics Tyivanyenko in Hungarian transliteration in English it should be something Aleksey Vasiliyevich Tivanenko. He is supposed to be an archaeologist at the Uni in Ulan Ude and/or a co-worker of the Russian Ministry of Justice. This article:
...is also supposed to be written by him.

Why do I ask this?
15th March is coming soon, it's a national holiday and it will be the 170th anniversary of the 1848-49 revolution and war of independence. One of our great poet and national hero, Sándor Petőfi, was an active participant in the fights and about the end of the war he disappeared. Traditionally he considered KIA during the battle of Segesvár. There are doubts and some thought the intervening Russian army captured him and sent him to gulag under the name of Petrovich. Based on small evidence a Hungarian research team traveled to Barguzin some decades ago and in a cemetery there they found a remains of a person who had some peculiar attributes like our poet had. On the other hand scientists identified the skeleton as a female. Others still wished to compare the DNA to a relative of him (also deceased) and the Russian side was a-ok with that however Hungarian authorities prevented it on the basis of some bullshit reason. Then a Chinese group of researchers made the comparison to living relatives and they said it's a match. Hungarian researchers on the other hand said the method the Chinese used is useless and btfo.
Few years ago this person above published a book (I dunno the title) and he came to Hungary and made a presentation of the results of this research. He says the remains in Barguzin belongs to Petőfi. So I thought I check on him but I found nothing other then a few articles from few years ago on Hungarian fringe sites.
Maybe info is more abundant in Russian. Thx.

Bernd 03/04/2018 (Sun) 14:40:04 [Preview] No.13979 del
He is easily googled, and looks like he is relatively known person in Buryatian historian community at least. Although sometimes he looks "fringy", he located gold of Kolchak in Baikal etc, i.e. articles about him have some "shock" value. Or he just likes PR much. Although he looks like scientist, not pseudoscience freak as many others, but he has some freaky style if you'd read about his discoveries. I couldn't comment of his authenticity because I'm not into archeology.

Here is some large article about him personally: http://nbrb.ru/?p=24217
He found multiple archeological things like ostrich eggs in Buryatia, something related to Baikal water levels etc. Petefi is also in list.

Here is interview about Petefi: http://ulan.mk.ru/articles/2016/08/10/buryatskiy-kraeved-aleksey-tivanenko-naznachen-sopredsedatelem-mezhdunarodnogo-instituta-petefi.html
He says about some documents that were found etc, also about Petofi at all, his life and poetry.

Here is pretty large (26 pages) document about Petefi with images, some docs and links to other works: http://uuchurch.ru/Petefi.pdf

He also wrote a large book: D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA_%D0%A1%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B8.html?id=jgn2jwEACAAJ&redir_esc=y">https://books.google.ru/books/aboutD0%A2%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA_%D0%A1%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B8.html?id=jgn2jwEACAAJ&redir_esc=y
I couldn't easily find it in internet, libgen has only his other works. They also say that Hungarian version will be available (or available already).

I didn't really fully read this, it is pretty large topic. From a first look: some local sources, metrics (that were lost after) and documents say, that Petefi was alive in Barguzin, had a wife, got kids. Some poetry were found too, and "Hungarian scientists said that they are real". About female bones: expedition that said this had some political issues.

There is also link to this related book: https://www.antikvarium.hu/konyv/armando-lucifero-petofi-sandor-sziberiaban-341506

Bernd 03/04/2018 (Sun) 14:44:12 [Preview] No.13980 del
Shit, this site clearly doesn't like some symbols in links.

Here is two google books links:

https://goo.gl/sAR3NE - small book from 1991 (33 pages)
https://goo.gl/tBCiGt - large new book from 2016 with 258 pages.

Although I don't think that someone could find them without going to some Buryatian libraries.

Bernd 03/04/2018 (Sun) 17:05:21 [Preview] No.13986 del
Thanks! That really helped. So he doesn't seem to be a crook, he just lieks controversial topics. I'll check the links.

Bernd 03/04/2018 (Sun) 20:29:27 [Preview] No.13992 del
I actually seen someone with a Habsburg chin irl before

Bernd 03/25/2018 (Sun) 08:11:51 [Preview] No.15173 del
Oh well.

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