06/29/2016 (Wed) 17:59:53
Shit, the chat is crazy
You can't really sum that up
DaveC1 was an undercover (State Dept I guess) CIA agent who had been hired as a project manager.
puffin aka Karen Reilly had known about this but didn't inform the rest of the TOR ppl.
23:10 < ioerror> where is karen in this?
23:10 < mrphs> and I'm sorry karen, but I'd never ever trust you again.
23:10 < helix> karen knew before anyone else
23:10 < mrphs> I was trying to help you however I could. but you betrayed my
23:10 < mrphs> you betrayed me worse than my enemies and stalkers.
22:38 < DaveC1> We killed a lot of civilians.
22:39 < DaveC1> We tried to minimize it. But that's what happens.
21:46 < DaveC1> helix: That can still be the story. But there's also, and I
don't want to be a dick about this, but some of the anti-vet comments I've
heard and anti-vet hiring policies that people have been advocating make it
sound like "we accidentally hired a vet and fired him as soon as we found out"
and that doesn't feel very good. Or very legal.
21:47 < Runa> not to be a dick, but "we hired someone who we realized would not
be a good fit for this community"
21:49 < DaveC1> Runa: That's a completely legitimate reason and I'll defer to
it. But I would submit that you can't decide whether I'm a good fit for this
community based on my resume any more than you can based on my skin color or
race or gender.
22:23 < ioerror> DaveC1: Why was your first reaction to expressing some
skepticism that bringing US intelligence agents/cleared people on board might
not be so great for Tor's image... to effectively threaten to sue Tor for
discrimination against vetrans?
22:05 < DaveC1> ioerror: Using Tor as a cover like this would be super
22:07 < ioerror> You mean like, XKEYSCORE, the drone proggram that kills
american kids in yemen, the iraq war, FAIRVIEW (NSA domestic spying with AT&T
as a partner) or any other secret US spy program?
22:07 < ioerror> I mean, I can't really take this seriously, I feel like I am
22:04 < mrphs> working on internet freedom, might send you to prison in iran,
for a long time. being affiliated with cia, gets you and your family tortured
and murdered before getting a chance to answer any questions.
22:04 < mrphs> I'm sure DaveC1 knows all about that.
22:25 < ioerror> We don't put our users in Iran at risk
22:25 < ioerror> If we hire a CIA person, which we have done apparently, we
will get people murdered
22:25 < mikeperry> right. I think that argument is fair, and valid
22:26 < ioerror> this is the shit i have said for a long many of you have
denied that this was the game we were playing
22:26 < ioerror> I'm really at a loss here.
22:26 < ioerror> DaveC1: Did you do Counter intel at CIA?
22:27 < DaveC1> ioerror: I don't think I am allowed to answer questions about
what I did or didn't do at CIA. Sorry.
22:29 < sekritarma> runa: i trust that dave will work with us to produce a
boingboing article that we help with. i'm not worried there. the question is
how good that article can be for us.
22:29 < mrphs> DaveC1: do you understand that publishing such a thing can
actually cause a lot of serious trouble? I think I made it pretty clear that my
family might get fucking murdered.
The CIA fag just ignores mrphs (again)
22:43 < ioerror> DaveC1: Roger's internship at the NSA is not the same kind of
veteran who helped invade iraq
22:43 < DaveC1> How is it WORSE to have an organization started by an NSA vet
who also has a contractor who used to be CIA.
22:44 < ioerror> Also, check your entitlement? are you kdding?
22:44 < ioerror> Are you aware that for mrphs that his family will be murdered
22:44 < ioerror> That isn't a joke
22:44 < ioerror> He has no passport
22:44 < ioerror> He has no ability to work
22:44 < ioerror> He is in exile
22:44 < DaveC1> ioerror: So, um, remember when I was talking about how I heard
things sometimes that kind of sounded like anti-veteran discrimination?
22:30 < mikeperry> I have no doubt that the CIA would find Tor useful, and its
funding would not comrpromise us, but as I said then, the optics would be so
bad that the et improvement to Tor from such funding would not be worth the bad
22:31 < ioerror> mikeperry: Funding does compromise us
22:31 < ioerror> I am clear on that now.
22:31 < ioerror> Tor is compromised.
22:31 < ioerror> When we are paid to work on a browser rather than anonymity
improvements of Tor HS, we are co-opted
22:31 < ioerror> It is a faustian pact
22:32 < ioerror> When we set the road map and found funders to fund us, it was
22:32 < ioerror> we haven't done that for a long time
22:32 < ioerror> The money has corrupted us
22:32 < ioerror> And now, we're hoping for influence
22:08 < ioerror> Have you ever killed someone?
22:10 < DaveC1> 5. THat is an incredibly rude question to ask a vet, but no.
22:11 < Runa> what does 'not directly' mean?
22:12 < isis> Runa: i.e. have you ever indirectly killed someone via flushing
shit down the toilet in the US with potable water? we all do things to kill
indirectly, it would be exceptionally difficult to make any accurate guarantee
to the converse.
22:12 < ioerror> isis: yeah, that is bullshit
22:13 < isis> gandi fucking killed a million people indirectly
22:13 < ioerror> isis: when you are part of an imperialist illegal war and
you're in the invasion force as a warrior, you do not get to claim it is like
flushing shit down the toilet
22:13 < ioerror> isis: irrelevant speculation
22:14 < ioerror> isis: in any case, i'm happy to see that my friends in iraq
are an abstract concept to you
22:14 < isis> the deaths in iraq are by no means abstract
22:14 < isis> the concept of "indirectly killing" is
22:19 < isis> ioerror: please, we're all shocked and wondering what is the best
way to move forward, please try - as much as you're angry - not to wantonly
attack DaveC1, but try to remain civil. causing a dramabomb on top of a
clusterfuck is probably not going to help.
22:19 < ioerror> isis: when you compare the iraq war to gandi (the domain
register??!? I suspect you meant Mohandas Gandhi), I can't even believe you are
trying to do that.
22:20 < ioerror> isis: in any case, my questions are not an attack, they are
questions directly related to my interests related to Tor
22:20 < ioerror> If we have a CIA person working at Tor, many of us will be put
22:21 < ioerror> As it stands now, I have been accused of being CIA and that is
22:21 < ioerror> Once, I was deported from Lebanon for being jewish, which was
because htey said i was a spy for israel (false)
22:21 < ioerror> If we have a CIA person working with Tor, I won't get out of
that next time, I fear
22:22 < ioerror> And I barely did get ou tof that in 2009 (as Sebastian and
others may recall)
22:22 < ioerror> I am still banned for life from Lebanon